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Post by DeLorean on Sept 26, 2004 20:53:51 GMT -5
no prob, it's cool, he wasn't to know. Dude. In your profile, you can change ur name to Chuck The Landslide, Your username will still be the same, but you can change ur name, unlike in other forums
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Post by Raistlin Majere on Sept 26, 2004 21:04:31 GMT -5
Dude. In your profile, you can change ur name to Chuck The Landslide, Your username will still be the same, but you can change ur name, unlike in other forums He said he got bored of CTL...
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Post by DeLorean on Sept 26, 2004 21:07:29 GMT -5
He said he got bored of CTL... understandable, like I got bored of Yoshi21
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DDT
Beginner Mage
DDT owns bird eggs for free
Posts: 61
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Post by DDT on Sept 26, 2004 22:01:57 GMT -5
Nah, DDT owns the everliving fuck out of bird eggs.
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Post by DeLorean on Sept 26, 2004 22:02:33 GMT -5
Nah, DDT owns the everliving fuck out of bird eggs. Is this some kind of an inside joke or sumthin?
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Post by Raistlin Majere on Sept 27, 2004 6:54:53 GMT -5
Is this some kind of an inside joke or sumthin? Wow, this thread deserves to be closed, if you ask me... But I'm actually enjoying the spam without closure, though it is my job to patrol things like this... Hmm... to close or not to close, that is the question. Meh, one more time, guys. Back on topic.
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Post by DeLorean on Sept 27, 2004 8:23:25 GMT -5
Yoshimitsu Frame Data
This has been achieved with the aid of Mitsurugi's and Yunsung's frame data.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Basic Execution Time -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Regular & 8WR Moves
i4 = A+K i5 = A+K{GI1}
i10 = 2b:A i11 = A i12 = 2A / 1A i13 = 6b*9 / K / 3K i14 = B / 2B / 6b9 / 6B+K i15 = A_B+G / 66A+G / 6A / 3A / 6K / 66K / 33_99K / 22_88K / 6A+B i16 = 214A+B / 6K+G / 4A / 3B / 2K / 22_88B i17 = 6B i18 = bA / 6b*3 / 11_77B / 44bB i19 = 4K / 11_77K / 66B / 33_99B i20 = 1B / 66B+K i21 = 3B+K / 33_99B+K i22 = 33_99A / 22_88A / 2A+B / 1B+K / 22_88B+K i23 = 44A i24 = 44bA i25 = 66A i26 = 214A i29 = 66A+B / 11_77A+B / 44A+B i30 = 2A+K i31 = 11_77A / 6b:3 i32 = 9B+K i36 = 1{1} i37 = 1K i39 = 44B+K / 11_77B+K i40 = 3 i42 = 4B / 2[A+B] i45 = 66[A+K] i40 = 236B{1} i55 = 9A+B~2 / 8A+B / 22_88A+B i58 = 1{2} / 236B{2} i71 = 2A+K~A i80 = 44B
i29 = 66A+B i40 = 66A+B~2B i46 = 66A+B~B:6B+K i48 = 66A+B~G i52 = 66A+B~G~A+K i53 = 66A+B~B:3B+K i54 = 66A+B~B:1B+K i56 = 66A+B~A~PG 6A+B i59 = 66A+B~G~A i65 = 66A+B~A~PG A+B i82 = 66A+B~B~MD~G / 66A+B~B~MD A+B i87 = 66A+B~B~MD~G~A+K i88 = 66A+B~B~MD A i90 = 66A+B~A~PG~G i93 = 66A+B~B~MD~G~A i92 = 1{3} i113 = 9A+B
i45 = 66[A+K] / 66A+K~G i54 = 66A+K~BT A
i26 = 4B+K~G i31 = 4B+K~5~A+K i33 = 4B+K~3B+K / 4B+K~A~PG 6A+B i34 = 4B+K~1B+K / 4B+K~2A+B i37 = 4B+K~5~A i42 = 4B+K~A~PG A+B i51 = 4B+K~A~PG K i61 = 4B+K~A~PG A i62 = 4[B+K]2~MD~G / 4[B+K]2~MD A+B i67 = 4B+K~A~PG~G i73 = 4[B+K]2~MD~G~A i78 = 4B+K~A~PG~G~A
i39 = 44B+K i49 = 44B+K~A~PG 6A+B i50 = 44B+K~G~(WS) i52 = 44B+K~G i58 = 44B+K~A~PG A+B i62 = 44B+K~G~FC 2A i63 = 44B+K~G~WS B i65 = 44B+K~B~MD~G / 44B+K~B~MD A+B i67 = 44B+K~A~PG K i70 = 44B+K~B~MD~G~A+K i76 = 44B+K~B~MD~G~A i77 = 44B+K~A~PG A i83 = 44B+K~A~PG~G i88 = 44B+K~A~PG~G~A+K
FC & WS Moves
i12 = FC A i13 = WS B i14 = FC 2K i15 = FC B / WS K / 6A / 6K i16 = FC 3B / 4A i17 = WS A / FC 3K / FC 1K / 6B i19 = 4K i22 = FC 3B+K i23 = FC 1B+K
Jumping & WL Moves
i21 = 8K i24 = 8B i25 = 8A i32 = 9B+K i35 = WL K / WL 5~G i40 = WL A i40 = 236B{1} i41 = WL B i45 = WL 5~A i55 = 9A+B~2 / 8A+B / 22_88A+B i113 = 9A+B
Back Turned Moves
lBT = left rear side, opp. step to the right rBT = right rear side, opp. step to the left
i10 = BT A / BT 2A i11 = BT K / BT 2K i12 = FC A i13 = BT B / BT 2B
BT attacks on Yoshi's left rear side can be 1 frame slower than indicated, depending on what kind of move they encouter. Only lBT A / 2A / 2K are affected.
BT attacks on Yoshi's rear right side can be 1 frame faster than indicated, depending on what kind of move they encounter. Only rBT A / 2A / 2K are affected.
BT B / 2B / K are very consistent in their speed.
Stance Moves
Stance moves appearing in parenthesis represent base speed when already in stance.
--- i15 = (44b*B) i22 = (44b*A)
--- Pogo
i17 = (PG A+B)
i23 = A+B~PG 6A+B i32 = A+B~PG A+B i41 = A+B~PG K i51 = A+B~PG A i53 = A+B~PG [A+B] i57 = A+B~PG~G i62 = A+B~PG~G~A+K i66 = A+B~PG B+K~MD~G / A+B~PG B+K~MD A+B i68 = A+B~PG~G~A i72 = A+B~PG B+K~MD A i77 = A+B~PG B+K~MD~G i82 = A+B~PG B+K~MD~G~A+K i84 = A+B~PG B+K~MD K i88 = A+B~PG B+K~MD~G~A
--- Meditation
i51 = B+K~MD~G / B+K~MD A+B i56 = B+K~MD~G~A+K i57 = B+K~MD A i62 = B+K~MD~G~A i72 = B+K~MD 4_6~G i75 = B+K~MD 8~PG 6A+B i79 = B+K~MD K i80 = B+K~MD B i83 = B+K~MD 4_6~A i84 = B+K~MD 7_8_9~PG A+B
--- Soul Charge
i16 = SC1 G i21 = SC1 A+K i26 = SC1 2b:A i27 = SC1 A i31 = SC2~G i36 = SC2 A+K i41 = SC2 2b:A i42 = SC2 A
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Advanced Data -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are some moves which show fluctuation in their attack speed - depending on what kind of move they encounter, i.e. faster against linear / downward / horizontal etc.. Some have evasive frames, sway motion depending on position in space / distance to opponent. I haven't had the time to specify against what types of moves what speed applies for the relative attack. But it might already help to understand certain occurrences when trying to reproduce frame data.
1A i12~i13
214A i25~i26
bA i18~i19
1B i19~i20
44bA i24~i25
2A+B i21~i22
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Post by DeLorean on Sept 27, 2004 8:24:07 GMT -5
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hit/Block Stun ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- H = regular hit C = counter hit D = crouched hit G = grounded hit B = blocked R = blocked while rising
Frame advantage is a fluctuating number. The amount varies with the moment of impact. Your recovery time starts as soon as you've input a move. Your opponents hit / block stun starts from the impact frame. Therefore, the later you hit your opponent during the animation of a move, the more advantage / less disadvantage you end up with. Try to touch your opponent with the tip of the sword / foot for maximal advantage / minimal disadvantage.
Example: A H +7~8 B +0~1 --- close range / early impact: H +7 B +0 far range / late impact: H +8 B +1
Moves with a block recovery of B -11 or worse may give your opponent free attacks.
Example: 6b3 B -13 --- Guard possible from frame 13+ after opponent's recovery = Yoshimitsu cannot block attacks of speed i12 or faster. Attack possible 13 frames after opponent's recovery = all attacks add +13 to their base speed, i13 K will trade hits with opp's attack of speed i30 etc. Note that blocking low or crouching take an additional frame of recovery. In the same example, Yoshimitsu cannot crouch or block low any attacks of speed i13 or faster. Moreover, it is impossible to suffer a crouched hit by medium hitting attacks of speed i13.
There are exceptions, where you'll be able to attack earlier than being able to block and vice versa.
If you ever have trouble in reproducing a particular maximum disadvantage, try using advance guard (g6). This will reduce the push-back of string moves and alter the moment of impact. 1A series for example: only use of AG reliably leads to max. disadvantage B -8.
I also decided to list which moves force your opponent into crouch. This can be important since many characters don't have access to their fastest moves, making it harder to interrupt your mix-up or more importantly, impossible to punish certain moves on block. This is mainly indicated by the abbrevation OC, which stands for opponent crouched. This can be extended to further describe under which conditions crouch results. OCB = opponent crouched on block. OCD = opponent remains crouched when hit already ducking. In the case of low hitting moves, this mainly happens when counterhitting a TC / WS move.
Regular Moves
A H +7~8 B +0~1
A,A H +3~4 B -6~-5
6A H +6~7 B -3~-2
3A OCD H +2 B -7
3A,B H x B -13~-12 Exceptional recovery: attacks of speed i13 or faster cannot be blocked.
3A*B H x B -11~-10
2A ~FC OCD H +5 B -5
1A ~FC OCD H +4~5 B -6~-5
1A,A ~FC OCD H +2~3 B -8~-7 If the first spin connects, consecutive spins only rarely score a late impact. On the other hand, whenever a spin is blocked, the next has a greater chance score a late impact.
4A H +6 B -1 Allows for rBT attacks at same (dis-)advantage.
4A,A H +2~3 B -6~-5 All spins allow for rBT attacks at same (dis-)advantage. If the first spin connects, consecutive spins only rarely score a late impact. On the other hand, whenever a spin is blocked, the next has a greater chance score a late impact.
214A H x B -30~-28
--- B OCD H +5~6 D +6 B -7~-6
B,B OCD H +0 B -10
bA OCD H -2~-1 C -24 D -1 B -14~-13
6B OCD H +3 B -7
6b9 H +6~7 B -1~0 Earliest block impact does not occur against all characters.
6b*3 OCD H +0 B -13
6b:3 H x B +0~2 Earliest block impact does not occur against all characters.
3B H x C x B -11~-10
3 H x C x B -11~-10
2B ~FC OCD H +2~3 B -8~-7
2b:A ~FC OCD H +5 B -5
1B OCD H -1~0 D +0~1 B -11~-9
1{1} OCB/D H -5~-4 C x B -11~-10
1{2} H -1~0 C x
1{3} H x
4B H x B +28~29
--- K H +1 B -9
K,K H +1~2 B -9~-8
K,K,K OBT H +2~3 B -12~-11
6K H x B -20
6K,2K ~FC H x B -30
6K,K H x B -16~-15
3K OCD H +0 B -10
2K OCD ~FC H +4 B -10
1K H x B -16 Exceptional recovery: non-high hitting attacks of speed i16 or faster cannot be blocked. Attacks of speed i17 cannot be blocked but GId.
4K H +4 / +6 B -11 / -9 No different states of (dis-)advantage in between. Late impact occurs at max. range.
4K,B OCB/D H +5~7 C x B -8~-6 If 4K connects on counter hit, ~B has a greater chance to score late impact.
4K,{1} OCB/D H -5~-4 B -12~-11
4K,{2} H -1~0
--- 6A+B OBT H +2~3 C +6~7 B -16~-15 Counter spin stun prevents opponent from buffering. Must know exact recovery for earliest retaliation. Premature input or mashing completely prevent attacking for a number of frames = adv. up to +9~10.
2A+B OCD H +5~7 D +7 B +0~1 Earliest impact does not occur against all characters.
2[A+B] H x B +31~32
2A+B~A~PG~G H -24~-23 D -23 B -30~-29
2[A+B]~A~PG~G H x B +0~1
2A+B,B H +9~10 C x B +0~1
--- 6B+K OCD H -4 B -14
6B+K,B H -1 B -9
CH 6B+K,B H +4
6B+K,B,B H +4 B -7
6B+K,B,B,B H x B -12
6B+K,B,B, H x B -12
3B+K OCB H x C x B -3~-2
1B+K H +9~10 C x B +0~1
--- A+K H x B -16
8WR Moves
66A H +3~6 B1 -7~-6 B2 -8~-7 Allows for rBT attacks at same (dis-)advantage. Shorter block stun at far / max. range.
33_99A 22_88A H +2~3 C x B -14~-13 Exceptional recovery: attacks of speed 14 or faster cannot be blocked.
11_77A ~FC H +4~6 B -11~-9 Exceptional recovery: non-high hitting attacks of speed i11 cannot be blocked. Attacks of speed i12 cannot be blocked but GId.
44A H +3~5 C x B -9~-7
--- 66B 33_99B H x B -14~-12
66B,B+K H -4~0 D -3~+1 B -9~-5
66B,[B+K] ~lBT H -2~+2 D -1~+3 B -7~-3 rBT attacks are also possible but require early JF input.
66B,B+K,A+B H1 -14 H2 -12 H3 -6 H4 -2 B1 -24 B2 -22 B3 -16 B4 -10 These are the results from either H/B at the very same distance. There may be other states of (dis-)advantage in between. Exceptional recovery: attacks of speed x cannot be blocked. Attacks of speed x+1 cannot be blocked but GId.
66B,B+K,A+B,K H x B -28
22_88B H +4 B -13 Exceptional recovery: attacks of speed i13 or faster cannot be blocked.
11_77B OCD H +0~1 B -11~-10
11_77B,A H +2~3 B -10~-9
11_77B,A,B~G H -25~-24 B -37~-36 Yoshimitsu is able to block high and medium hitting attacks with 2G while cancelling ~B.
11_77B,A,B OCB H x B -12~-11 Exceptional recovery: attacks of speed i12 or faster cannot be blocked. Shortly after impact, Yoshimitsu is able to block high and medium hitting attacks with 2G, even when ~B was stepped.
44bB H +7~8 B -4~-3
44bA~G H x B -15 Against most characters, only the 1st spin connects on block, 2nd whiffs, therefore unsafe. It's not possible to cancel right after the 1st spin. Yoshimitsu must know exact recovery for earliest retaliation. Premature input or mashing completely prevent attacking for a number of frames = disadv. up to -18.
44bA H x B -12
--- 66K H x B -13~-10
33_99K H x B -11~-8
22_88K OBTC H +1~2 B -8~-7
44K 11_77K See 4K series.
--- 66A+B OCB H x B -8~-7
66A+B~2B OCD H -7~-5 B -20~-18
22_88A+B H x B +35~37 Late impact prevents opponent from buffering. Must know exact reocvery for earliest retaliation. Untimely input or mashing completely prevents attacking for a number of frames = adv. up to +40.
66B+K See 66B series.
33_99B+K H x B -3~-2
22_88B+K H +9~10 C x B +0~1
FC & WS Moves
WS A H +4~5 B -8~-7
FC A ~FC OCD H +5 B -5
WS B OCD H +5~7 B -6~-4
FC 3B ~FC OCD H +1~2 C x B -9~-8
FC B ~FC OCD H +0 B -10
WS K H x B -10
FC 3K H x B -22~-21 Exceptional recovery: non-high hitting attacks of speed i22 or faster cannot be blocked. Attacks of speed i23 cannot be blocked but GId.
FC 1K ~FC OCD H +0~1 B -12~-11 Exceptional recovery: non-high hitting attacks of speed i12 or faster cannot be blocked. Attacks of speed i13 cannot be blocked but GId.
FC 1K,K ~FC OCD H -17~-16 B -29~-28 Whenever a kick connects, the next has a greater chance score a late impact. Exceptional recovery: non-high hitting attacks of speed x cannot be blocked. Attacks of speed x+1 cannot be blocked but GId.
FC 2K ~FC OCD H +2 B -8
Jumping & WL Moves
8A OBT H +4~5 B -7~-6
WL A H +3~5 B -10~-8
8B OCD H +3~4 B -7~-6
WL B OCB H x B -7~-5
8K H x B -10
WL K H x B -11
9A+B H x
9[A+B] H x
8A+B H x B +35~37 Guard break properties change on late impact. It causes a buffer lock and prevents opponent from buffering. Must know exact reocvery for earliest retaliation. Premature input or mashing completely prevent attacking for a number of frames = adv. up to +40.
9B+K H x B -10~-9
9B+K,K H x B -10~-9
Back Turned Moves
lBT = left rear side, opp. step to the right rBT = right rear side, opp. step to the left
BT B OCD H +7~8 B -3~-2
BT 2B ~FC OCD H +7~9 B -3~-1
lBT A H +7~8 B -1~0
rBT A H +6~7 B -2~-1
lBT 2A ~FC OCD H +4~5 B -7~-6
rBT 2A ~FC OCD H +3 / +6 B -8 / -5
BT K H +9~11 B -6~-4
BT 2K ~FC OCD H +3~5 B -8~-4
Stance Moves
PG A ~FC H +5~6 B -18~-17 Exceptional recovery: attacks of speed i18 or faster cannot be blocked. Attacks of speed i19 cannot be blocked but GId.
PG A+B H +1 B -9
PG [A+B] H x B -6 SC1 B +29
PG 6A+B H -21 / -18 / -17 B -31 / -28 / -27 Moment of impact can be influenced by using 4_6.
PG K H x B -20~-19
--- MD A H +5~6 B -18~-17 Exceptional recovery: attacks of speed i18 or faster cannot be blocked. Attacks of speed i19 cannot be blocked but GId.
MD B H -7~-6
MD A+B H1 -14 H2 -10 H3 -3 H4 +3 B1 -24 B2 -21 B3 -12 B4 -6 These are the results from either H/B at the very same distance. There may be other states of (dis-)advantage in between. Exceptional recovery: attacks of speed x or faster cannot be blocked. Attacks of speed x+1 cannot be blocked but GId.
MD A+B,K H x B -28
MD K H x B -16 Exceptional recovery: attacks of speed i16 or faster cannot be blocked. Attacks of speed i17 cannot be blocked but GId.
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Post by Jon Irenicus on Sept 27, 2004 17:43:55 GMT -5
if this gets off topic again like it did previously, its getting closed.
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Post by Shinoda_EX on Sept 29, 2004 19:45:00 GMT -5
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DDT
Beginner Mage
DDT owns bird eggs for free
Posts: 61
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Post by DDT on Sept 29, 2004 21:58:26 GMT -5
I didn't think it was that bad. Then again, you have to think of who your using it on. Your not going to hit, say, Wyzt with Nighty's 1A, but for the most part i think it's a solid move. Remember, I'm a VOLDO player, these are just my thoughts based off of observations.
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Post by DeLorean on Sept 30, 2004 9:43:29 GMT -5
I didn't think it was that bad. Then again, you have to think of who your using it on. Your not going to hit, say, Wyzt with Nighty's 1A, but for the most part i think it's a solid move. Remember, I'm a VOLDO player, these are just my thoughts based off of observations. Just do NM's 1A when people least expect it! I myself lure an unsuspecting opponent to the ledge, I GI their move, usually trick em into GIing back, and when the time ir right, i 1B em off the ring... tis the awesomest move in the entire game, besides Yoshis bA when it hits on counter
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Post by Shinoda_EX on Oct 23, 2004 22:20:34 GMT -5
Just do NM's 1A when people least expect it! I myself lure an unsuspecting opponent to the ledge, I GI their move, usually trick em into GIing back, and when the time ir right, i 1B em off the ring... tis the awesomest move in the entire game, besides Yoshis bA when it hits on counter No. I would never use 1A randomly. NM's strat is to keep moving. If someone get's in my face, A1 or 3A is good enough. It's best to use 1A near a ledge I guess...
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Post by Jon Irenicus on Nov 8, 2004 22:20:41 GMT -5
Soul Calibur is just boring now. when you become 3rd Player of Legend on Conquest mode at your local arcade with 4500+ wins, it gets boring. the character ahead of me has 5000+ and the 1st place character has 5600+. very sad, and somewhat creepy.
anyway , for Xianghua
3A,K (use as fake out occassionally) 3b, 1b, 3b while rising. thats all you gotta know for X, its cheap, but cheap is another word for effective.
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Post by DeLorean on Nov 8, 2004 23:37:32 GMT -5
W/ Yoshi, all u gotta do, if you're away from the opponent is to 6B9 him. this not only does a lot of damage for a tiny blow, but has an incredible reach! Gr8 for humilliating ur enemies!
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